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Gamers: Ethics & Religion Discussion of ethics and religion and what place they have around the gaming table. The point of this forum is to give space to all the ethical stuff that is or is not relevant that gamers insist on talking about anyway. Also much discussion of real-world issues including religion and politics. THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR THE THIN-SKINNED! You have been warned.

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Old 12-13-2017, 07:21 PM
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Default Review: Star Wars VIII - The Last Jedi

Just came home from watching the latest Star Wars movie.

I liked it. I didn't see it in 3D, so no idea on how well any such effects worked.

There are some parallells to both Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi, but they are not so much that it is a copy of those.

The acting was so-so. Daisy Ridley and Carrie Fisher was the best ones. The actor playing Kylo Ren, well he still gives Hayden Christenssen a run for his money on being the whiniest person ever. Mark Hammil, well he wasn't too convincing in his role. here he phoned it in.

The movie leaves us with more questions regarding who Rey and Snokes are. I do think some of the force-powers used are much more potents than what we have seen before. Not sure if that is a reflection on what can be done according to the latest RPG.

/Magnus
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Old 12-17-2017, 01:39 AM
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I am using voice dictation to write this message sitting in the theater after having seen it for the third time today. The plot is not without problems but the art Direction and The pacing and basically every other aspect of the movie is off-the-charts amazing in my opinion. The problems with the plot are such that yeah they're there but that is literally the only bad thing I can say about the movie. :-) when I'm at a real keyboard and have a good night sleep after catching my horse showing after this I will write a more thorough thought set whatever about it. :-)
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Old 12-17-2017, 06:39 AM
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My spoiler free thoughts c/p from facebook:

Quote:
The weakest part of the movie was it's writing. No details as this is spoiler free but that's my thought and what keeps it from exceeding Empire Strikes Back, or A New Hope. I'm up in the air as to how I feel about it relative to Rogue One because that movie has some minor problems too.

The art direction was fucking fantastic. The movie features what are probably 3 of the most epic and impressive visuals in the entire franchise. The choreography of one of the main fight sequences is the single best fight sequence from any of the movies by a sufficiently wide margin as to be potentially unassailable. The only thing that gets close is Luke's duel with Vader in RotJ and that's for reasons other than the choreography.

The acting was excellent I thought. No one seemed to phone it in and basically any scene where Kylo Ren is talking to someone, rather than barking orders, was particularly excellent. The characters also experienced growth in a way that I think feeds well into the next movie despite the notes above re: writing.

The lore was also well honored I thought. In some cases I think they got a little too obscure with things that were relevant to the plot rather than window dressing but there wasn't anything terrible in there. In particular it helps to have watched all of the Clone Wars and I think that qualifies as a criticism because all 5 seasons of that is a slog to be able to appreciate the parts where the movie is informed by it. I haven't gotten around to watching Rebels yet but I suspect I'll find the same thing, where it helps a lot to have watched all the seasons and that's also unfortunate I think but nothing inconsistent with the new cannon was done.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:11 AM
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Spoilery bits:

Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!



Spoiler!
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:14 AM
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funny, i was just coming here to write one myself!

i rate it above ROTJ. but ROTJ isn't exactly my favorite entry in the franchise.

while remaining spoiler-free: just see it. overall i liked the acting better. there are of course plot issues--and there's one so big you could fly multiple star destroyers through it--but the character development is better than most entries in the saga.

performances:
i agree with magnus that daisy ridley and carrie fisher really carry the film in terms of performances. unlike magnus, i was pleasantly surprised a bit by adam driver, who plays kylo ren. i'm less concerned by hammill, who'll never be mistaken for the second coming of brando. i thought his performance was serviceable.

writing:
did a good job of making logical, inevitable transitions beat by beat. in this respect, i thought the writing was better than average for star wars. i'm concerned by some of the decisions--but you could say that about any film's direction/production, i suppose.

now, to get into the nitty gritty:

[spoiler zone]
things i loved:
Spoiler!


things about which i'm conflicted:
Spoiler!


things i hated:
Spoiler!
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:25 AM
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sw:
Spoiler!


Spoiler!
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Last edited by Ischade; 12-17-2017 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:54 AM
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first, let me respond to your points, ischade:

Spoiler!


and re: your own observations from the spoilery bits...

Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!


Spoiler!
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Old 12-17-2017, 06:25 PM
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The parts I did not like...

Spoiler!


/Magnus
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:39 AM
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I rate this similiarly as I do ROTJ, in that it was really two movies intercut with each other, and one was brilliantly done, and the other was a bland sci-fi action flick.

Spoiler Free:

The Bad

I hate Poe. Just fucking hate his cool fly boy, assuming in his ignorance of...well everything, he knows best, ignoring orders, etc. The writer's recognition of this is obvious, which is why they
Spoiler!
. Han at least had some level of experience and sense behind him, Poe comes off like a spoiled brat. I wouldn't put him in charge of the Resistances holiday party.

The irrelevance of Finn's storyline. I mean, apart from the hamfisted social commentary that rich people are all bad and evil and stuff, what was the point?

The Porgs. Every time they were on the screen I expected to see a popup saying they were available wherever fine plushie toys are sold. Less useful than Ewoks.

The Good

Luke is finally a 3 dimensional character. Now I get that this isn't his story, so they couldn't really devote time enough to do so, but I would love to see a deeper story as to how he got to where he was mentally. There has to be more than what was shown.

I love the interplay between Kylo and Rey. Daisy Ridley carried the movie, IMO.

All of this side of the story worked for me, it seemed important, not just urgent. I would have loved to see more.

The Spoilerey:

Spoiler!


It'll be interesting to see how they handle Leah; I don't think it'll be that difficult to kill her off screen, given the events here; but I do think it leaves a big narrative hole to be filled.
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:55 PM
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I have mixed feelings, but overall I suspect this one will not hold up to long-term scrutiny. It has moments that are among the best in the series, but it also has moments on par with the worst of the prequels.

First and foremost: someone needs to hand-deliver a book (or ten) on narrative structure to Rian Johnson, because this movie's structures is all fubar.

What I liked:

Spoiler!


What I hated:

Spoiler!


Mixed feelings:

Spoiler!




I'm in agreement with Brother Brian here, as the movie feels like two (or three) films bolted together with little regard to how the scenes intercut or interrelate. Individual scenes are amazing, but even the amazing scenes sometimes make little or no sense, add nothing to the tension of the story, or are outright contrary to the narrative arc. I want to like the movie much more than I actually liked it.

Last edited by Archaelos; 12-18-2017 at 02:00 PM.
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