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Gamers: Ethics & Religion Discussion of ethics and religion and what place they have around the gaming table. The point of this forum is to give space to all the ethical stuff that is or is not relevant that gamers insist on talking about anyway. Also much discussion of real-world issues including religion and politics. THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR THE THIN-SKINNED! You have been warned.

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  #51  
Old 04-17-2016, 05:47 PM
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Mouser Mouser is offline
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Originally Posted by Origen View Post
Full disclosure: I don't actually believe most American Christians genuinely consider abortion to be murder. I think it's a talking point.
That seems wrong to me.

If there is a position one holds "for religious reasons," it should have a basis in Truth.

I come from a world where a person's word has legal and religious meaning.
Prayer is not just a muttering of meaningless aphorisms.
Blessings have power.
The Law is The Word of G-d.
When you take action, you'd better be able to point a text and a viable basis in Jewish History to support your interpretation as to why you acted the way you did.

Murder is a very strong word.

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Originally Posted by Origen View Post
it could be on the not-so-scientific basis of looking at the child, and saying, "That doesn't look like me!"
Roman Law gave the head of household literal life-and-death power over the members of his household. When a baby was born, it was placed in his bedroom. If he picked it up, it stayed. If walked out of the bedroom without picking it up, it was out with the trash.
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  #52  
Old 04-17-2016, 06:07 PM
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Origen Origen is offline
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Originally Posted by Mouser View Post
That seems wrong to me.

If there is a position one holds "for religious reasons," it should have a basis in Truth.

I come from a world where a person's word has legal and religious meaning.
Prayer is not just a muttering of meaningless aphorisms.
Blessings have power.
The Law is The Word of G-d.
When you take action, you'd better be able to point a text and a viable basis in Jewish History to support your interpretation as to why you acted the way you did.

Murder is a very strong word.
It has even further implications in Christian theology, when that interacts with modern science.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professi...neous-abortion

10 to 15% of all confirmed pregnancies result in spontaeous abortion by the body. This doesn't take into account expulsions by the body of early implants which occur and are terminated without the mother's knowing it.

So imagine, roughly speaking, that of all people who currently exist and breathe (7.125 billion+), another 700,000,000 souls were created at fertilization, but were never born and never lived.

Two absurdities exist, at this point:

1. All of those people went straight to heaven - do not pass go, do not collect $200. Depending on how narrowly you define Christianity, you may actually end up with a heaven peopled mostly by souls who never drew a single breath in this world. That 10 - 15% percent is in the developed world. It is much higher elsewhere in the undeveloped, and much higher historically. Infant mortality was also higher, and remains so in other parts of the world.

2. If you're hardcore, and you believe that only someone who has willfully accepted Christianity can be saved, then all those delightful little children go straight to hell. I trust that I don't need to detail how absurd this is. The doctrine of the "age of accountability," which states that only at a certain age of intellectual maturity can a person become accountable for the fate of their own soul. It's popular, but not very rooted in solid theology. One professor in my graduate school knew someone who was active in the pro-life movement precisely because he said he couldn't be sure that the souls of aborted souls would be saved. (This would include spontaneously aborted souls, logically.)
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  #53  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:45 AM
silverwhisper silverwhisper is online now
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bumping because i was reviewing this thread and had quite missed a lot of it.
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  #54  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:05 AM
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This thread was one of my favorites last year, for it's rigor of thought and the seriousness of the participants.
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