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Gamers: Ethics & Religion Discussion of ethics and religion and what place they have around the gaming table. The point of this forum is to give space to all the ethical stuff that is or is not relevant that gamers insist on talking about anyway. Also much discussion of real-world issues including religion and politics. THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR THE THIN-SKINNED! You have been warned.

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  #1  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:56 PM
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Default The Neo-Nazis of the Daily Stormer Wander the Digital Wilderness

The Neo-Nazis of the Daily Stormer Wander the Digital Wilderness

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/eleme...tal-wilderness

I'm really not internet-savvy enough to know how to keep these Nazi sites off the internet, but there should not be any place on the internet for Nazi propaganda.
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:08 PM
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The fact idiots want to be idiots on the internet doesn't motivate me to want to give more power out to shut down websites, because the more power to shut down websites, the more power that will get used wrongly, and if this website wants to post stupid stuff I scarcely feel compelled to read it
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Salah_ad_Din View Post
I'm really not internet-savvy enough to know how to keep these Nazi sites off the internet, but there should not be any place on the internet for Nazi propaganda.
There are plenty who would gleefully restrict your propaganda from the internet as well.

I don't want the government, multinational corporations, net-nannies of the Left or Right, you, the Ayatollah, Donald Trump, anyone named Kim, or various power-hungry do-gooder controlling what I read online.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:14 PM
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There are plenty who would gleefully restrict your propaganda from the internet as well.

I don't want the government, multinational corporations, net-nannies of the Left or Right, you, the Ayatollah, Donald Trump, anyone named Kim, or various power-hungry do-gooder controlling what I read online.
Do you turn custom results off everywhere? Most of those folks already do control what you read online with wildly varying degrees of potency. I'm not endorsing the idea of *more* of that shit, we have too much, but there's absolutely a lot of content control going on out there right now.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:26 PM
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I mostly see 'buy audiobooks' not 'Jews are evil'

I'm not sure how much I trust it though, why do I keep seeing ads for stoves from Best Buy when I bought a stove from Best Buy? Do they think I need a second one?
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:26 PM
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Do you turn custom results off everywhere? Most of those folks already do control what you read online with wildly varying degrees of potency. I'm not endorsing the idea of *more* of that shit, we have too much, but there's absolutely a lot of content control going on out there right now.
Too much, imo. The social media echo chambers grow stronger by the hour, it seems sometimes. Rather than expanding our understanding, too often the internet is now subdividing into parochial cloisters.

I get that there are limits, but I want those limits drawn as far out as possible. I want Google searches to turn up political results across the spectrum, even though I'm cognizant their search algorithms are already massaging what I see. I'm even concerned with social medias new policies to limit the spread of "fake news". I mean, when I say "fake news", what I mean is different from when DJT says "fake news", ya know? And frankly, I don't trust Zuckerberg and the like to make that decision for me.

So yeah. Content control happens, but let's keep it to a minimum.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:39 PM
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I assume it means price competition dies when Audible finds it cheaper to pay Google than ever actually compete with anyone

I just want to buy a book on CD not priced as if minted from pure Vibranium

For all the 5 bazillion sponsored Audible ads everywhere (And I notice my phone came with Audible pre loaded into autocorrect) they are far from helpful about explaining whether I can use audible in my car without descent into madness from shear inconvenience
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaelos View Post
Too much, imo. The social media echo chambers grow stronger by the hour, it seems sometimes. Rather than expanding our understanding, too often the internet is now subdividing into parochial cloisters.

I get that there are limits, but I want those limits drawn as far out as possible. I want Google searches to turn up political results across the spectrum, even though I'm cognizant their search algorithms are already massaging what I see. I'm even concerned with social medias new policies to limit the spread of "fake news". I mean, when I say "fake news", what I mean is different from when DJT says "fake news", ya know? And frankly, I don't trust Zuckerberg and the like to make that decision for me.

So yeah. Content control happens, but let's keep it to a minimum.
I would argue that the internet was always sub divided into parochial chambers and all you're seeing is a proliferation of the chambers in both number and scope as the digital divide shrinks and mobile platforms become ever more dominant. People don't *want* the things you're describing and, on a certain level, you're not being less prescriptive than Google or FB.

The interesting thing about managed content is that if you make a little bit of effort into diversifying the content returned to you then you wind up with information from across the spectrum. It actually doesn't take much effort either. If you actually have the chops to go manage what google thinks you want in the places you can do so, (I know you do, but plenty of people don't, or don't even know they could if they wanted to.), you can actually flex the system to great personal benefit.

Also, FB is a chorus for one to preach to by design. Whether or not you like that idea I don't think there's anything controversial in describing it as such. It's as much, or as little, of a hotbox as you set it up to be because you control who's in the choir and which songs get put into the hymnal.

Also, I'm with Salah on this one. There are certain groups and ideals that clearly warrant overt hostility. "Don't be a dick." is the closest thing to a universal moral truth I've found so far in life and nazis are defined by their desire to violate that principle.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:30 PM
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I'm not sure how companies make a profit off banning Nazis, but whatever tool they get to ban Nazis they will find ways to pervert and profitize and not to our benefit I'm sure

Idiots posting stupid news in some dark corner of the internet doesn't motivate me to give Audible and friends another arrow for their quiver
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ischade View Post
I would argue that the internet was always sub divided into parochial chambers and all you're seeing is a proliferation of the chambers in both number and scope as the digital divide shrinks and mobile platforms become ever more dominant. People don't *want* the things you're describing and, on a certain level, you're not being less prescriptive than Google or FB.
I'm not sure how I'm being prescriptive at all. Search engine results, ideally, shouldn't be ideologically managed. Obviously, some sort of ranking mechanism has to be used, but I believe the basic algorithm (popularity, relevance, whatever) should be applied equally.

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The interesting thing about managed content is that if you make a little bit of effort into diversifying the content returned to you then you wind up with information from across the spectrum. It actually doesn't take much effort either.
I think you're underselling the effort required. I do make a conscious decision to diversify my social media and news streams, but I still see unexpected biases arising in my recommendations. If a user doesn't make a continued effort, those biases will slowly erode any diversity based on un-(sub)-conscious choices in browsing / headline clicking. (Not that social media algorithms always make sense. FB is convinced I want to read pro-sports news. Ugh.)

Quote:
If you actually have the chops to go manage what google thinks you want in the places you can do so, (I know you do, but plenty of people don't, or don't even know they could if they wanted to.), you can actually flex the system to great personal benefit.
a) Many people don't have the technical acumen, even if they so desired.
b) Some don't even understand it's happening.
c) Others, of course, want the echo chamber.

The result? I have relatives whose social media news offerings consist entirely of sites with titles like ConservativeDailyExplosiveNews and AltRightChampion. How distorted must your world become when half your news comes from Alex Jones and his ilk? How much worse when you actually believe this is "mainstream" or "moderate" positions based on the recommendations and results?

Quote:
Also, I'm with Salah on this one. There are certain groups and ideals that clearly warrant overt hostility. "Don't be a dick." is the closest thing to a universal moral truth I've found so far in life and nazis are defined by their desire to violate that principle.
And do you trust DJT, Mike Pence, Ben Carson, Betsy DeVos, Jeff Sessions, and Scott Pruit to make the determination of which groups go on the naughty list?
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